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		<title>political science job rumors &#187; Topic: Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread</title>
		<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174</link>
		<description>Things may get weird. Trying to fix the problems.</description>
		<language>en-US</language>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 13:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<generator>http://bbpress.org/?v=1.1-alpha-2539</generator>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174&amp;page=2#post-411065</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">411065@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>The "hire on promise" strategy works well under two conditions:</p>
<p>1) Department has a high tenure bar.  Junior faculty is disposable.  Some work out, some don't.  To make this work, department also has to be attractive enough that high performers want to stay.  Harvard, Stanford, a few others can make this work.  Advantages: you get the best of the best and you don't have to go after them later in their career after they've already put down roots somewhere else.</p>
<p>2) Department is good at spotting talent early, before the publication record or early in the publication record.  Some departments are very good at this, and have built impressive faculties by bringing stars in before they are stars, and then hoping they put down enough roots that they stay in spite of the inevitable offers that come in.  Helps to be in a place people want to live.  These schools don't have the deep budgets and wouldn't be able to hire the stars once they are stars, so their only way of getting stars is to spot them before anyone else does, and then make them happy enough to stay.  Only works if you can read the pipeline.  If you screw up, and the tenure bar is also low, you end up with a bunch of duds.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174&amp;page=2#post-411064</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">411064@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>^^ OP was talking about top universities hiring junior faculty. So it is reasonable to assume that these universities care about research rather than teaching.<br />
And if someone publishes after getting one's PhD, not before, well, top universities can very well wait till that person has a decent publication record before hiring him/her.<br />
Oh, and how does one "read the pipeline and make an educated guess about trajectory", again? And how is that more objective than relying on publication record?
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>lolw on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174&amp;page=2#post-411059</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>lolw</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">411059@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>what a great bump! thanks for clarifying!
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174&amp;page=2#post-411058</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">411058@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>^ plus, it may be a strong predictor but it is also a noisy predictor.  There are plenty of people who have not published much when they get hired but publish a lot of great material after they get hired.  It is possible to read the pipeline and make an educated guess about trajectory.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-411057</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">411057@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I think OP's main point, which I acknowledge, is that one's publication record before the PhD is the strongest predictor of one's publication record after the PhD.</p>
<p>OP's argument falls short, however, because OP fails to realize that universities have other goals in mind in hiring aside from just producing good research. Many universities are constrained to hiring a specific demographic (female faculty, for instance) because donors have given money with that requirement. Other universities care about teaching, and maybe the worse researcher is the better teacher. There are many other factors at play in hiring aside from just hiring the best researcher.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410325</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 00:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410325@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Think Hobbes. the jobs go to the people who are nastiest, brutish, and shortest.</p></blockquote>
<p>I know someone who's nasty, brutish, and short, and he's had a pretty tough time with the job market.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410282</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410282@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>^don't bother.  Women are like mad dogs when it comes to defending their institutional privileges.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>good show on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410280</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>good show</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410280@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>^^that's great.  You're so smart. But have you actually ever been on a search committee or in a department meeting?</p>
<p>If you have, then you would know that people know that what he describes is how our world works-- it's that way at my middling R1 now, and was that way at the middling private R2 where I used to work. Every year, I have friends at SLACs call me to ask if I know of good women in my field. </p>
<p>The only question is whether the gender issue is explicitly discussed or discussed with winks and coded language, and whether the practice itself is treated with irony or earnestness.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410275</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410275@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>what's the answer??
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410273</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410273@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>While the OP appears to hang around CGIS-Knafel, he (I think we can assume its a he) doesn't seem to have a very good understanding of what counts as adequate evidence on which to base broad conclusions. A sample of 4 individuals over the course of a job season or two isn't really an adequate sample; and to assert that the decisive factor is sex/gender, one would need to control for other factors -- but the OP seems to have made no attempt to do so (other than controlling for institutional affiliation by focusing on just one program -- but that gets us back to the problem of representative sample).<br />
If this is indicative of the quality of reasoning and argument in the OP's work, it's no wonder that he is (evidently) frustrated and envious about his professional performance.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410254</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410254@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Listen, dudes.  You people don't have a clue.</p>
<p>Think Hobbes. the jobs go to the people who are nastiest, brutish, and shortest.</p>
<p>You got to claw your way in. "record" and "pedigree" dont mean NOTHIN</p>
<p>If it means sleeping with the search committee, or getting someone high, or even blackMaleing someone,</p>
<p>you gots to do what you gots to do.</p>
<p>If you want to become a part of the promised land, you got to promise you will do anyting to get to that land.</p>
<p>So, do it, good people.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410252</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410252@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>^By construction, someone who has a solo APSR has not "produced virtually nothing." </p>
<p>A solo-authored APSR is, in fact, "virtually something." If you have one as a grad student, then you have a very significant head start on your way to a tenurable record.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410250</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410250@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>and get over yourself about "Harvard's quant training."  I really hope you don't believe "Harvard's quant training" is so special?
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410248</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410248@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>um, actually I can think of someone who has had a solo APSR, from a top five program, with excellent training, who has gone on to produce virtually nothing.  and no, I will not name names.  It happens.  there are no guarantees.  </p>
<p>and yes, if a person has a solo APSR and bombs the job talk, there are still good arguments for hiring the person.  But a bombed job talk + acting like an ahole + terrible one on ones == may add up to not hiring that person.  </p>
<p>if you think shite doesn't get through AJPS and APSR, you are hopelessly naive.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410246</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410246@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>^I'd second this by noting that if someone has a solo-authored APSR or AJPS, combined with having gone through Harvard's quant training, you really can't get any greater assurance that a particular grad student is going to be a high quality publisher.</p>
<p>For such a candidate, I would argue that the job talk has the danger of being a distraction for hiring departments, as it adds noise to the equation by giving faculty who want to derail the candidate an opportunity to look for subjective reasons to discount the objective evidence (Harvard PhD and the top journal article).
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410243</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410243@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>^^<br />
I think this is the wrong attitude, except for finding a**holes. </p>
<p>Tenure is evaluated on the ability to write interesting work. Committees and departments should read the work, whether in JOP or unpublished.  If a candidate has a solo JOP or solo APSR, then that should count even if the talk is a bomb.  No one evaluates talks when they receive someone's tenure file. </p>
<p>Now using the talk to find a**holes or to learn that someone doesn't know much about their co-authored work is a different story.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410242</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410242@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>^This is actually correct.  Those journals are just ruthless nowadays.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410240</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410240@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>^^^Sure, in theory that's possible, but you couldn't name a single person in recent history who had a solo APSR or AJPS article as a grad student and later turned out to be a "one hit wonder," as you called it. This simply does not happen.</p>
<p>Go on, try to name a single example from the past ten years. Just a single one.</p>
<p>The fact is that it's extremely rare for a grad student to have a solo APSR or AJPS, and when it happens, it's a very, very strong signal that the person will publish at that level again in the future. It's a much stronger signal than any recommendation letter from any pestigious adviser, or any dissertation awards, or a PhD in hand from any top department.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410235</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410235@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://youtu.be/QaTbErVDQ40" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/QaTbErVDQ40</a></p>
<p>Go on, name name.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410233</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410233@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>A solo APSR is going to be pretty attractive for most committees and departments.  But even a solo APSR does not guarantee a job if 1) many people in the department think the paper has some pretty serious flaws (the review process is imperfect at all journals; 2) the candidate is a jerk; 3) the job talk was bad (not just mediocre, but bad); the candidate seems unable to formulate a wider agenda or articulate interesting questions (so paper could be a one hit wonder, reflect advisor, suggest technical merit but lack of broader insights, etc.).  </p>
<p>Why should the job talk matter?  Failing a job talk suggests many different things: candidate could be too arrogant to put the time into developing a good talk.  Who wants that kind of arrogance around?  Even more worrying, paper may not reflect work of student but of advisor.  Paper may be fluke, etc.  Point: even with a solo APSR paper (which is a strong signal), it may be difficult to evalute quality.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410231</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410231@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>When you're evaluating new PhDs/ABDs, there isn't much of a paper trail to look at.</p></blockquote>
<p>Seems like OP's point is that there is a difference on paper between Candidate #3 with a JOP and Candidate #1/2 with nothing. And I agree, provided that the JOP wasn't co-authored with the advisor (which is a far murkier situation).
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410223</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410223@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>"The fact is committess put too much stock in talks and not enough in the research itself."</p>
<p>Two points:</p>
<p>1. This often happens at the department level. Committees come up with the short list and may issue a hiring recommendation, but the vote to hire is typically at the department level. Most department faculty outside the committee don't read the files, so the job talk is what they have to go on.</p>
<p>2. When you're evaluating new PhDs/ABDs, there isn't much of a paper trail to look at. Dissertations can be misleading insofar as there can be a lot of hand-holding by the committee, the candidate may just be doing a spin-off of the adviser's research, etc. And not to mention whether the candidate can actually teach. The job talk provides evidence of whether the candidate really can explain and defend their research, whether they can communicate effectively, etc. It's a different situation when evaluating advanced assistants and senior candidates, but then they should be beyond bombing a job talk, no?
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410218</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410218@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Here's the thing.  A committee of 3 people might find a candidate with an already good publication record a strong candidate. However, the department might have several faculty wanting someone studying Asia or Latin America -- and the committee invites some applicants who do these things even though the CV of the Asianist isn't that strong, but the other 2 Europeanists have great records.  The Europeanists give poor talks and during deliberatoins over who to hire the Latin Americanist is hired because s/he gave a good talk.</p>
<p>The fact is committess put too much stock in talks and not enough in the research itself.  A good talk + filling some perceived regional need in a department can often get someone hired when it doesn't make sense from the outside.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410216</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410216@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>If ^ is posting accurate information (and I don't know for sure), then this is evidence that search committees are pretty bad at predicting future research quality. Candidate #4 would have been predicted to be a high-impact researcher simply by glancing at the CV.</p>
<p>The "issues with the job market paper" comment is a fairly subjective commentary.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410195</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410195@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I know who some of these people are, and CGIS Knafel doesn't know the whole story. In particular, Candidate #4, although incredibly productive in grad school and since, had some issues with his/her job market paper and talk and therefore underplaced relative to Candidate #2, who say what you will, gives very good talks.  People around at the time know this; apparently, CGIS Knafel does not.</p>
<p>There's more to the hiring process than just your pub record, including whether you blow a job talk.</p>
<p>Now, stop bashing people and get back to work.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410193</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410193@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>If all else is equal, then 3 an 4 are most likely to have produced the best publications since. Of course, not all else is always equal, and 1 and 2 might have shown better promise in grad school in spite of their weaker CV's.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410173</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 05:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410173@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>It's like giving birth or having open heart surgery.
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410168</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 05:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410168@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Ha ha, I love how being a racial minority is a "complication"!
</p>]]></description>
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			<title>anon on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410163</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 05:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410163@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>oh yes, and 1 and 2 were females for sure. I am pretty sure there are examples to the reverse as well, but this guy just wants to attack females. I am guessing he has some sexual problems, or got dumped recently.
</p>]]></description>
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		<item>
			<title>hint please on "Profiles of candidates from the No Names thread"</title>
			<link>http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/topic.php?id=63174#post-410162</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 05:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>hint please</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">410162@http://www.poliscijobrumors.com/</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Did any of them coauthor "with" Mo Fiorina?
</p>]]></description>
					</item>

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