^ heh.
Publishing your way into grad school?
(66 posts) (4 voices)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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Can the OP give an example of the sort of journal where s/he published? The reason I ask is that most undergrads think that their publication in some undergraduate peer-reviewed journal is worth something. It's not.
Also, the fact that you "don't think I have the skills as of yet to crank out an APSR" suggests that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Of course you don't have the skills set: you got a 2.0 (or thereabout) as an undergrad!
And most of us read all the major journals, and I don't think I (or anyone I know) has ever come across a solo-authored paper by an undergrad in a major journal. That's why I think you've published in a journal that *sounds* legit, but in fact is some glorified undergrad newsletter with the words "journal" or "review" in it. And that doesn't add anything to overcome a bad GPA.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I didn't have a 2.0, that was hypothetical. I had more like a 2.8 with just north of a 3.5 for the last three semesters. "I don't think I have the skills as of yet to crank out an APSR" was a deliberate understatement - I'm well aware that I'm not about to put something in APSR, JOP, etc. I'm not delusional. The whole hypothetical about a 2.0 and a JOP was basically to ask "is there any conceivable way to publish your way into grad school?"
The journals I've published in are not just glorified undergrad journals; they are journals where legitimate political scientists publish. A recent issue of one of them included articles from: a faculty member at Georgia Tech, a researcher at the University of Gothenburg (which I believe is in Sweden), a graduate student at the University of Melbourne, a co-authored piece between a faculty member and a graduate student at the University of Illinois Chicago, and a "research associate" at Oxford. So, yes, you don't see a whole lot of Harvard people publishing there, but I think it's respectable enough; there's a chance I'm wrong.
As for the whole "get a masters degree" idea - I can't say that's something I'd like to do. I can take 5-7 years out of the workforce to live on peanuts as a graduate student, but I'm not going to frontload that with 2 years for a masters and associated debt - even if there's no debt, taking on a masters adds at least another year to the process, which is just no good. If it's just essential that I spend some time in a classroom before a program will accept them, then I suppose that I could take a class or two at my local university - but a masters just isn't something that's going to happen.
Posted 3 years ago # -
If you're as hot-sh*t as you suggest in terms of writing/research, it won't take you 5-7 years to finish. 2 years of Ph.D. classes, a year to write/defend that dissertation. I mean, if it's published in AJPS while you're in school (or was it JOP?), should be a fine diss., eh?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Again, I never published in JOP, and I don't think I will. That was hypothetical.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Hey, OP. I say you go for the AJPS. I'm not kidding. I want to see the kid that gets into HYPS off of top-three pub. I want to laugh at all the people who think that writing top-three pubs are all that. And once it happens, I'll come find you and shake your hand.
Go big, my friend, rather than going home.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I worry about your level of commitment if you are unwilling to take an extra two years to get a Masters degree. Graduate school is difficult and unpredictable, and the job market is worse. The fact that you appear to have decided what the "best" path is for you and refuse to stray even in light of very good advice makes me question you future potential for success in this field.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I have sat on my department's graduate admissions committee, and the poster suggesting a terminal master's degree is 100% exactly right. It's absolutely the best thing you can do for yourself -- it both signals seriousness about your goal and diminishes the importance of your undergrad GPA. Making sure you have positive letters is a good idea too.
Posted 3 years ago # -
You don't know that getting an M.A. first will add any time at all. The best guess is that it adds a year. But it could happen that the M.A. experience leaves you better prepared for the PhD program, and you sail through because of it rather than stalling. In my case, it was two years at the M.A. program, then four at the Ph.D. program; many people who came in to the Ph.D. program fresh from undergrad spent 7-8 years there, so I came out even, or even ahead, by getting the M.A. first.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Alright, the terminal MA message is coming in loud and clear, but I've been quite adequately convinced that it's absolutely foolish to borrow money to pay for one. Is it possible to get funding for a masters? Even if you don't have the credentials to get into a PhD? If so, where can you get funded?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Yes, you can get funding even without the credentials to get into a PhD program. MAC schools (University of Toledo, Ohio University, Eastern Michigan, etc.) were mentioned above as examples. That's the sort of place--the public, non-flagship university. You're funded as a TA.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Let's be honest: There's nothing you can't learn on your own (through persistent hard work and self-discipline) that can only learn in a PhD program. So if you can get published in APSR w/ a bachelor's degree, go for it. You get a PhD in order to have the credentials to land jobs in academia. If you want to land jobs in academia, you have to jump through the hoops. It's that simple.
Go get a terminal MA at a MAC school, as others have suggested. Or at a number of institutions around the country. I entered as a terminal MA as a fully funded MA student, it became my launching pad to a solid PhD program.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Best thing to do is to get in touch with profs, visit the schools (if you can accord several trips)...it is always a good thing to be known as a face and not just as an application form number/letter of intent...do your homework, talk to the profs about them, then about how your interests fit theirs...Cheers
Posted 3 years ago # -
The two above are both dead on in their own ways. #1 There's absolutely nothing magical about a university classroom. There's no reason, in theory, that you couldn't learn everything on your own - you can read the same articles, even try your hand at writing the papers, etc. If you've managed to get a couple of articles published, then obviously you have the skills to do some learning and thinking on your own. The problem with "going it alone" is that it's much harder to demonstrate to other people that you have learned the right things. Publishing is one way to prove what you've learned, but it's obvious that, for whatever reason, that approach isn't working for you. This leads to #2 An application like yours is unusual, without more information, I think committees might just have no idea what to do and thus default to rejection. You need to reach out to professors and try to get in touch with them; talk to them about who you are, your situation, and also (of course) their own research.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The master's degree is definitely the way to go, but you might need to reconsider your goals somewhat. A 2.8 overall is lower than the thresholds for most of the graduate programs to even consider your application. Also, just over a 3.5 is better relative to the 2.8, but I'm not sure that it's enough to get an admissions committee to get over the earlier grades. Your GREs, which you haven't mentioned, will be extremely important.
Posted 3 years ago # -
"Was it some random publication that a committee member might not be impressed by after reading despite the name of the journal (e.g., a political theory article)?"
Seriously? A theory article in the AJPS is unimpressive? The AJPS editorial reports suggest it's pretty darn hard to get a theory article published there. So it's difficult to imagine it being worthless.
I suppose I would also imagine that it's utterly impossible for me to imagine an undergraduate -- theory or otherwise -- publishing in the AJPS.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Get a f------g MA. It's the only way.
There is definitely funding available. I went to a Big 12 school for undergrad where the masters students were not only charged a pittance (say, $10,000 for tuition--enough to work off with a weekend bartending job), but were largely able to get research or teaching fellowships.
Some of these kids have done well, getting into solid, top-20 programs: Wisconsin, Wash U, UNC. Most, however, ended up in the kind of places that train future community college instructors. Nebraska, say.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Man, this OP sounds like someone I would not want to have as a student. Sort of like that old UCLA conservative nut who went to Texas (can't remember his name), or perhaps that oddball who wanted to publish 3 journals a year for 5 years while in grad school.
Look, you don't know what you're doing. That's fine, none of us really did at your stage either. But we had good mentors who steered us. Obviously you don't have those mentors (which is no surprise given your poor undergraduate academic performance). So people here are giving you good advice, but somehow you resist that advice. What did you expect? "OMG, u r getng robbd! 2 articles should get u in evrywhre! OMG"
No, people are telling you what to do to shore up your credentials. BTW, you're probably getting **** recommendation letters. I mean, really bad ones. Getting a MA is not just so you can up your GPA. You will impress new professors who will then write you strong letters. That, along with the new GPA, publications, and perhaps better GRE, will get you in grad schools. Not, as you state, two 3rd tier articles and nothing else going for you.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I posted the AJPS-theory thing, and I was just playing along with the wacky hypo. Trying to think about it like I would a grad student publication. If someone publishes a AJPS article right in the heart of what AJPS does, then you gotta be impressed even if the rest of the record seems kind of sketchy. OTOH, the simple fact is that political theory is the area that came to mind as something that AJPS sometimes publishes that generally cuts no ice with the general PT community (i.e., an AJPS publication in PT counts for next to nothing on our search committees). And when we read those articles, we generally know whey they were published in AJPS and not in a PT journal. Just sayin'
Posted 3 years ago # -
The only thing that will save OP, I think, is knowing exactly which PhD program they want to go to, going to a terminal MA program with a professor who is either admired by the particular profs in the desired department/a grad of that department/a co-author with profs from that department, and doing everything possible to impress said professor and get a great letter. Ace his/her class, volunteer to be his/her research assistant, whatever it takes (within reason). The letter OP needs is the one that says "this is one of the top 5 students I have seen in 10 years" etc. On top of that, unless you are a theorist, take and ace econometrics and game theory courses in your MA program. Go to ICPSR (or similar) and impress the profs there.
This would be very difficult for anyone, but it would require dropping this publishing nonsense right now. I, too, would be very wary of having a student that thinks they can beat the system somehow. A PhD is about being a social conformist for a very long time before you can do anything on your own terms. It's OK to be a nonconformist - hell, Bill Gates is a college dropout - but you will not be successful in a PhD program with such an attitude.
Posted 3 years ago # -
If you didn't do well as an undergrad, your first step should be to start reaching out to your undergrad profs. Do at least a weekly round through the department. Attend lecture and brownbags, and ask good questions at them. Make them realize that you have turned yourself around.
W/ bad grades (and it seems your overall GPA is barely north of 3.0), you will need two things to get into an MA program: a VERY good score on your GRE AND very good recommendations from your undergrad profs that clearly state that you are a bright kid who had trouble buckling down at first, but has turned things around.
I had a student who wasn't nearly as bad as you suggest, but who didn't get an A until a junior (but always had grades above B, so a cummulative GPA above 3.0). But she began to attend office hours more regularly, came to lectures, and showed enough promise in her paper that I steered her to some good MA programs (she didn't think she was competitive). In the end, she got into her first choice (American University). She's now on her way to moving up into a good PhD program.
Then again, this was a student at a top 50 LAC. If you are doing barely a 3.0 at a regional public school, yes, it may be very hard for a solid MA or MPA program to look carefully at your application. You may have to enter a lower ranked MA program, then claw your way into a decent PhD program, then claw your way up the ranks in academia. Grad school takes more humility and hard work than it does intelligence. Some of the most intelligent people in my cohort didn't finish their dissertations.
Posted 3 years ago # -
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Posted 1 year ago #