I am an ABD who is currently on the job market. On the CV that I sent to several schools, under my works in progress section, I listed a paper that was under review. I have since received an R&R from the journal. Should I update any schools about this? Would it help me at all, or would the effect be marginal, or even negative? Thanks.
Updating Applications?
(31 posts) (4 voices)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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It's a risk. It would be an annoyance to the committee. Think about the professors on that committee and how busy their lives are, and the fact that they might be annoyed to be interrupted to update your file. On the other hand, if your R&R is from APSR or a top journal, it might be worth this risk. Be very careful, though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Don't, unless it is an acceptance. In the end, that paper is still "under review" in theory - and in today's market, I am afraid a mighty R&R almost never changes anything.
Posted 1 year ago # -
+1 Only update when you have an acceptance.
Posted 1 year ago # -
OP here. That's the impression I had. Thanks!
Posted 1 year ago # -
This might be a stupid question, but does anyone have an idea of the percentage of R&R manuscripts that eventually get rejected? I mean, how well does an R&R signal eventual acceptance on average?
Posted 1 year ago # -
It depends on the journal, but for most journals I would guess R&R means 80-90 percent chance of acceptance. Most RR tell you what you need to do in order to get the paper published.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I see. But if R&R is almost as good as acceptance, then OP might actually want to risk annoying the committee, unlike what someone here said...
Posted 1 year ago # -
^^ Not all journals are like that. IO gives at a lot of R&Rs before rejecting.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've never been on a search committee, obviously, but is this really a hassle for faculty? It seems like it might create a little extra work for the department administrative staff, but I don't think Big Name Prof X is really getting emails, printing out materials and putting them in files.
Posted 1 year ago # -
^ To answer your question, no, this is not a hassle for faculty as this will be handled by the staff. If you send an updated cv for any reason, the staff person responsible will simply print it out and replace the one in the active file.
As for whether it is a good idea to send the R&R update, it depends. For the most part, I agree with the advice to hold back. Informing the committee of the R&R is unlikely to increase the likelihood of an interview, but it's nice to have this to talk about if you get the call. (Something along the lines "Actually, that paper is now under R&R" is a good line to have in a phone call. Think Bear Bryant's "When you get to the end zone, act like you've been there before.") On the other hand, if your R&R is at APSR, JOP, BJPS, AJPS, IO, then, I'd suggest sending the updated cv.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Agreed that the risk of annoying faculty members is slim to nil. The bigger risk--maybe small at most journals, but still not worth taking--is that your article will be rejected after R&R. If a search committee member were then to ask, "hey, whatever happened to your article?", then unless you're willing to lie it could hurt you.
Posted 1 year ago # -
^ I wouldn't worry at all about the R&R rejection issue. Anybody who has been in this business for any length of time has had multiple R&R's rejected on subsequent review. The best conference bar war stories involve two rounds of revision on the way to rejection. If you're rejected on R&R you tell the committee that you revised as well as possible, the editor declined, and then talk about where the paper is presently. Ninety percent of being a successful T-T AP (or at any level) is perseverance.
Posted 1 year ago # -
A colleague did this a couple of years ago-- updated a CV with R&R at a top journal and got interviews at a few top 15 depts. Maybe they were going to interview anyway, but it certainly didn't hurt.
Posted 1 year ago # -
^ Pape, is that you?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm on a search committee and I would want to know if you'd gotten an R&R as it's a strong indicator that the paper is likely to be published.. Some graduate programs have a job search coordinator and it's not unheard of for us to get an email from that person with an updated cv saying "I wanted to draw your attention to..." Occasionally a dissertation supervisor will do this as well. It wouldn't bother us and would certainly strengthen the file.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Its not likely to bother a faculty member since s/he is unlikely going to read your file until the morning of the first SC meeting.
If you haven't made the cut after that meeting, then updating it wont annoy anyone but the work-study student who switches out the vita. If you HAVE made the cut, it is a good thing to update (see Tracy Flick's comment above).
Posted 1 year ago # -
This is not a re-hash of freshman year application to college. Job applicants are not expected or encouraged to update the search committee with recent small changes. New standardized test scores, elected president of the xzy club and community service updates were highly encouraged back then, mostly to make the kids feel good. Applying to college and applying to academic jobs are vastly different processes.
Posted 1 year ago # -
^ wow, really? I would not have thought so! anyway - it can't hurt to update the CV. it probably matters if you had a publication before or not. if so, you are already set apart from the crowd and you need not bother. if not and you get close (with an acceptance or an R&R) why wouldn't you tell them? especially with the 3-4 year assistant professors flooding the market and screwing over ABDs. SCs don't have time to get irritated with individual applicants - they have the luxury of ignoring them, if they so choose.
Posted 1 year ago # -
anon is right; most of us don't read the files more than between 2-48 hours before the search committee meeting, so it's really not an annoyance to anybody but the person who has to make new photocopies - SC members probably won't even know something changed. I think you should send it in; if SC members are so petty as to get annoyed, that's probably a sign that they aren't good colleagues to have to work with, anyway.
Posted 1 year ago # -
^ So how do you go through 300 files in 2 hours?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Quick glance at the first page of the cv usually tells me if the person is even remotely qualified - you'd be amazed at how many people apply for jobs in fields that they really don't do (eg, if we're hiring a comparativist to cover Latin America classes and we get somebody who specializes in Europe). After that, there's 50-60 left to skim slightly more carefully, which makes it possible to eliminate half pretty quickly (eg, the ABD's who clearly won't be done in a year, no publications or anything under review, no teaching experience). From there, I take a closer look.
Posted 1 year ago # -
^ Closer look is then what, reading letters? Writing sample? Teaching evals? Research statement?
I'm genuinely curious what the process on the other side looks like. I'm a VAP with no interviews so far, so naturally I'm curious. :)
Posted 1 year ago # -
Tracy is right--it is insane how many apps you get where the CV is CLEARLY not appropriate for the gig.
Most SC members spend about 30 seconds on first read-through of a CV.
Advice to job seekers--if you really want the job, tweak the first page of the CV to match what the ad says. If it is a teaching uni. and they ask you to teach specific classes, put that sheat in the first page. Also use verbatim the language from the job ad: ie, if the ad says we want "global environmental politics," goddamn it, put that as your focus. Don't say "global politics" or "environmental politics" or "international relations and the environment."
it sucks since you have to tweak your CV for each job, but I think it is time well spent.
Posted 1 year ago # -
this is helpful but also a little surprising. Langauge from the job ad is a cheap trick - shouldn't the substance matter? I mean what is the difference between "global environmental politics" and "environmental politics" + IR?? ESPECIALLY in light of the the fact that someone who studies democratic peace or something had also applied...
Posted 1 year ago # -
^ Dude, you would think so. But I have been on search committees where the ad said something like : be able to teach Environmental Politics, American Government, Congress."
The candidate under teaching interests had: "American Govt., Congress, Environmental..."
This person had an excellent record in research, teaching, etc.. BUT a senior guy in the dept said, "well, this person doesn't list Environmental as their primary interest, so they probably don't want the job"
I'm not saying aping the ad will get you the job ad--but it will help make sure you aren't summarily excluded in the first round of weeding through the crap. SC members are looking for ANY reason to whittle down the pile of sheeat.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm going to be nauseous now about the idea that something this ridiculous my eliminate my file. what did the other committee members have to say to that? Were there THAT many people doing global environmental politics? perhaps you should comment on the "environmental politics" thread about whether that segment of the job market is indeed cushy, as some claim.
Posted 1 year ago # -
^^^^^yeah, what IS a closer look. doesn't EVERYONE have good recs?
Posted 1 year ago # -
^^ anon- I was using the "global environmental politics" more figuratively. I don't remember exactly what the job advert said. This was nearly 10 years ago and I'm no longer at the school. It was some sort of "environmentally"-related job though.
The problem, in my estimation, was that you had a lazy senior faculty member, close to retirement, no skin in the game, who wanted to get the meeting over with ASAP.
I'm sure you will find departments like that one: state U with a MA program, top-heavy with full Profs and career associates with little research production. Unfortunately, THESE are the dudes reading your applications these days in many places!
Posted 1 year ago # -
assuming the SC actually notices your update (in a couple of cases the chair's e-mail was made available in the ad, for instance), would the notification be viewed as an expression of interest in the position?
Posted 1 year ago #