Just wondering how it works for grad students if they want to transfer after one or two years OR get out with a Master's degree and apply for phd at a better ranked institution. Is this frowned upon? Are faculty members going to single them out and give them a hard time for it? Will they willingly write letters for those students, if they have legitimate financial and spousal issues for jumping ship?
Thank you for your insight in advance.
you need better searching skillz to move up.
Not at all.
It does depend if you enter a PhD only program with a BA and get the MA "consolation prize," or if you enter a program with a terminal MA program (that might also have a PhD program).
That being said, the correct route for many students, especially those who had a difficult or disorienting BA experience, is to go get into a really good terminal MA program to improve their GPA, get better letters, enhance their tool box, and therefore get into a better PhD program. In the process of getting the MA, it is also likely that you will refine your interests and grow to understand the academic enterprise as well as understand the kind of program in which you will achieve success.
If you were in a PhD only program, and genuinely figured out that your interests would be better fulfilled elsewhere after a couple of years, then, if your supporting faculty are any good at this, they should be more than willing to help you get into a program that better suits your interests/work with people who can help you achieve what you want to achiever.
Good luck.
It happens more often than you might think. I know a lot of people who were dissatisfied with the first place they went, and found somewhere that was a better fit.
Thank you all above for your insight. I've been admitted to several phd programs (which do award MAs) and have yet to make a final decision. I have some personal issues -- actually both spousal and financial -- that might force me to choose a lower ranked institution over others, so I was considering transferring but utterly lost as to how this works.
When is the best time if you will to transfer/leave? Like at the end of the second year when I get a Master's degree on my way to a phd degree?
Thank you.
To some extent, the longer you wait, the better your position will be. You'll know more, you'll have more and better papers, you'll have better letters (assuming your letter writers don't undermine you---see below). But you'll also be losing time. If you transfer up, you'll almost certainly lose time, and you may even have to start over. I'd say the only time to transfer is after two or three years. Any less than that and there's really no point in going to this school in the first place; any more than that and you might as well just stick it out where you are.
If you have good reasons for leaving, some faculty members will probably be supportive. Some people are petty and will try to spite you. If you do transfer, when you ask for letters, BE SURE that the person you ask will give you good letters. If you sense any hesitation at all, go to someone else (another person you work with, someone else on the faculty, undergrad letter writers, etc.).
It is true, there are many students trying to transfer in to the Penn State PhD program. The only downside of moving to a top ten place like Penn State is that there is overwhelming demand to work with the most popular and skilled faculty members here in Happy Valley. Be patient. But good luck with the transfer and we will give you a roaring Nittany Lions welcome when you arrive!
^^ I have never seen anyone transfer "after three years." Limited sample (my R1). But this seems to me a bad idea. Leaving after receiving the MA seems logical, as you've completed one of the three steps on the way to the PhD. Trying to leave later than that, after you've finished or almost finished your coursework, sends a bad message, like you are impossible to work with and can't get any faculty to supervise your dissertation. And don't underestimate the time issue, as the longer you are in grad school, the more of a risk you run on the job market. Some schools look at time to degree as a negative signal, others don't. But you want to maximize your chances, which means minimizing any possible negatives that have control over to avoid getting put into the discard pile immediately.
I've known people who have transferred after three years. They did fine where they landed.
I am assuming that "after three years" means they applied to transfer at the beginning of their third year and left after that. I don't think I've known anyone who's APPLIED after three years.
Thanks for the replies. If I may ask one last (and probably very dumb) question, how high can I aim when reapplying for a phd after leaving with an MA from a school in 70-80 range? I got into a school in 30-40 but circumstances mandate that I choose this lower tier school. Can I aim for top 20 given that I do well? Thank you very much.
I get the sense the rankings matter to you. Would that be an accurate characterization?
Chances are that your application will look a lot better after 1-2 years in a graduate program. You will know more about political science, you will have stronger writing samples, and you will (hopefully) have better letters. If you do well where you are, I'd definitely suggest applying higher. If you can get into a top 40 school now, and if you show growth where you are now, you should probably be able to get into a top 20 or 25 in a couple of years.
@ ranking rodger: I guess so. Perhaps I've read too many PSJR debates on rankings and got the impression rankings matter a great deal. I'm not being cynical -- discussions here often suggest people outside top 20 will be unemployed or adjuncting their way to...nowhere.
To the anon above, thanks, I'll try to make it happen.
^^
Rankings do matter a great deal, but at least some of that is due to ommited variable bias. Students from top programs do better because:
1. they have more prestigious/connected advisors
2. they have access to better resources
3. they are less likely to have to be teaching assistants
4. they get better training, and can do better research
5. they have opportunities to co-author with smarter people
6. they have an identifiable name brand
I suspect there are cases of people who make themselves worse-off by abandoning programs where they have 1-5 (or if they are entrepreneurial, can get 1-5 regardless of where they go to school), if not 6 (plus the costs and risks of jumping ship). I'm not I wouldn't want to jump from University of Dallas to Harvard, but it's not always a slam dunk.
be for warned, some of these programs may not accept your previous coursework for transfer credits--adding to the time factors suggested above.
"I have some personal issues -- actually both spousal and financial -- that might force me to choose a lower ranked institution over others, so I was considering transferring but utterly lost as to how this works."
i wouldnt choose a lower ranked institution. the name on your degree matters. read the chronicle. look at the list of who is getting placement. decide what you really want and go for it. if it is a happy love life then nurture the hell out of that crap. but in the job market the name on your degree makes a big difference.
but since this is an old thread you already chose your path. curious what you picked?
Omitted variable bias isn't the same as specifying the causal mechanism.
It's fairly common. You get a masters and leave. Some go for personal reasons, and some because advisors leave, etc. Not a big deal, really.
Op here, didn't know this thread would be revived. Thanks for more comments. I actually deferred, which I thought was the best thing I could do in a mess of a situation (which took another turn after I started this thread). So reapplying this coming season, feeling humbled and even more lost, haha. Thanks for all your comments.