thoughts?
How old is too old to start of PhD?
(44 posts) (1 voice)-
Posted 2 months ago #
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45. You're probably never going to reach full prof before retirement rolls around...and you'll get age discriminated for jobs, anyway.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Unless you can Doogie Howser it and start when you are 16, don't bother. You will be wasting your time until you have to retrain for another career.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Early '30s is probably the latest you want to start, given how long PhDs take to complete. You want to be on the job market before 40, so that you can have at least a 25-year career.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Definitely take advice from a bunch of 22 year olds.
Posted 2 months ago # -
18. Everything before then is a waste of time anyway, so you aren't losing anything by doing a PhD.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Whenever you feel ready. Age doesn't matter. 70 is the new 30.
Posted 2 months ago # -
25-27 is the oldest practical starting point
Posted 2 months ago # -
^ Why?
Posted 2 months ago # -
It's kind of weird that you'd even ask. Political science PHds tend to be on the young side, but in some fields (education administration) people wouldn't even consider starting a phd program until they're about the same age that most political science PhDs finish.
Posted 2 months ago # -
^ A PhD in educational administration is even more bull$hit than one in poli sci so the comparison is less than apt. Sorry, honey.
Posted 2 months ago # -
on that note, I must ask: since when did the Ed.d start gaining credibility in higher ed. Used to be everyone knew it was a shite degree for retards. Is that message still not getting through? When that degree is viewed as par with a real Phd, that's when you will know the game is over.
Posted 2 months ago # -
A PhD in educational administration is a stepping stone to administrative jobs, generally. So, as with an MBA, you should have experience beforehand, and you won't be going for tenure afterwards. Totally different thing, despite the PhD label.
Posted 2 months ago # -
There was a guy in my cohort who started in his late 40s, graduated within 6 years. Really nice guy, good teacher, a couple of decent publications. It's going on 4 years now and he's never sniffed a tenure track job. I don't quite know why, but it's got to be something related to age - he would probably be a great addition to a LAC or lower lever SLAC.
Posted 2 months ago # -
That's really too bad. And in this market, it's not exactly like he can lawyer up and claim discrimination. OP, if you're asking this question, you're too old.
Posted 2 months ago # -
^
In what market could he do that?Posted 2 months ago # -
Funny how many people I know in the same situation who are much much younger...
There was a guy in my cohort who started in his late 40s, graduated within 6 years. Really nice guy, good teacher, a couple of decent publications. It's going on 4 years now and he's never sniffed a tenure track job. I don't quite know why, but it's got to be something related to age - he would probably be a great addition to a LAC or lower lever SLAC.Posted 2 months ago # -
^ Go get a PhD in Educational Admin. Then you can work as an Assistant to the Provost and fire everyone. You'll get decent money, full access to the University slush fund, and you will love it.
You may even be provost one day,
Case in point: http://site.scottscarborough.us/Publications.html
Posted 2 months ago # -
I'm curious to hear from those who think 25-27 is the latest you can start. What's the logic? Even those who think 35 is the latest.
Lets say you get your first job at 45...is 20-30 years not enough time to have a serious career? Most of the people on this blog assume people are deadwood if they don't publish 3 articles in their first semester. So, at that pace, a 5 year career is more than enough to make a mark. Is there an example of someone who didn't make their mark as a political scientist in say, 20 years of publishing and teaching? I'm not saying you can't--you could be teaching 40 years, and only then write your masterpiece. But if you start your career at 40+, are you really panicked that you aren't going to have enough time to succeed?
Take too the arguments of A.M. Slaughter about gender and work. What if you start a family (male or female), raise your kids, send them off to college, and then decide you want a career, so you head to graduate school at 40. Why not? Is there evidence that political scientists get dumber over time? Teach worse over time?
I'll add that from being on committees that have interviewed people under 30 and over 40, I'd have to say the age bias is in the opposite direction.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Most careers peak in their 40s and 50s. Good luck going on the market the first time when you're 45 Mr. Wheezer.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Curious. At a CHYMPS would a 35 year old + even get admitted to a PhD program? I never seen an example of this in practice.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Go back to investment banking Grandpa.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Perhaps one reason that people think 35 or 40 is too old is because it's difficult to do a Ph.D. from a financial standpoint. If you're in your early-to-mid twenties, you usually don't have a house and a family to support, so it's a little easier to handle not making much scratch. When you've got more responsibilities, it becomes more and more difficult to put aside the $$$ for 4-8 years.
Posted 2 months ago # -
OP, if you're over 30 only start it if you have a back up plan (e.g. previous career you could return to if things go sour). Even some people who started immediately after college are unable to find a stable job, they are getting bitter broke and miserable in their late 20s and early 30s. That kind of jobless situation would be even more devastating psychologically as you get older and less full of blind optimism/hope. So, go ahead, do a PhD if that's what your passion is, but please have a safe option.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Although people end up finding non-academic jobs with a PhD it is designed, first and foremost, to prepare you for an academic career. So it is a huge investment for a very specialized job
Posted 2 months ago # -
Thanks for all the insights. I am not the OP but am in a similar situation - considering applying for a political science PhD programs in my mid-thirties. Financial issues are not an immediate concern as I have plenty saved from having worked in the banking industry for the past 10 years. However, the road not taken has been tempting me more and more lately. Making money was exciting and satisfying at first but after a decade of overworking myself, having barely any vacation time and worrying about getting laid off after the market crash, I feel drained and the student life with all its ups and downs seems like a breath of fresh air for me. That said, I don't have any close friends who went down the PhD road so my idea of graduate school is fairly anecdotal and probably over-idealized. This helps a little with having a more realistic idea about the job concerns plaguing academia as well.
Posted 2 months ago # -
You will be dying for your old life again within three years, guaranteed.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Great example of a second career in poli sci later in life is Colin Wight, from the British punk band London (1976-77) and then other groups: "Colin Wight was awarded his PhD from the Department of International Politics, University of Wales, Aberystwyth in 1997 despite being in a punk band. He was supervised by Professor Steve Smith and his research was on the Agent-Structure problem in international relations theory. He was a member of staff at Aberystwyth from 1998 to 2003. He moved to Sheffield in 2003. His primary research interests are focussed on the relationship between international relations theory, political theory, social theory and the philosophy of social science. In 2006 Dr Wight took a chair at exeter university. It has still not been returned. In January 2011 he will move to the University of Sydney where the Department of Government & International Relations will have to be vigilant to prevent a repeat of the aforementioned chair-stealing incident." It can be done.
Posted 2 months ago # -
^ Punkies are so clever!
Posted 2 months ago # -
Personally, I think that most polisci PhDs start too YOUNG. In my department, most of the students who come in straight from undergrad leave within the first three years so that they can find out what they really want to do when they grow up. I'm not just being a prick - I came in straight from undergrad too. But there are a lot of people in my situation who go to grad school to take some time off before getting a "real job." Older students are less likely to waste the department's time and money like that because, presumably, they've already had that "real job" and they made a conscious decision to go to graduate school anyway.
Posted 2 months ago #